How to Handle Those "Oh no!!" Moments

SUMMARY

Leash Strategies and Emergency Tactics

Kim Rinehardt and Laura Bourhenne discuss strategies for managing reactive dogs on leashes and handling unexpected encounters with other dogs. They emphasize the importance of having contingency plans and practicing techniques like the U-turn to redirect a dog's attention. For loose dogs, they recommend using tools like citronella spray or keys to deter them. They also advise against panicking and instead suggest calm, assertive actions. For dogs that get loose, they suggest using high-value treats or the car as lures to bring them back. They stress the importance of not correcting the dog after it returns to maintain a positive association.

Action Items

[ ] Develop contingency plans for handling unexpected encounters with reactive or loose dogs.
[ ] Encourage clients to practice U-turns and treat-based redirection when there are no triggers present, to build a positive history.
[ ] Suggest clients carry deterrents like citronella spray or keys when walking in neighborhoods with known loose dog issues.
[ ] Revisit this topic in a future podcast to discuss more scenarios and strategies.

Outline

Handling Reactive Dogs on Leash

Kim introduces the topic of dealing with reactive dogs on leash and the importance of having contingency plans for difficult situations.
Laura emphasizes the need for graceful exits from problematic situations without causing more harm.
Kim shares a scenario where multiple dogs reacted to each other, highlighting the lack of awareness and handling skills among owners.
Laura discusses the potential for reactivity to turn into aggression and the importance of lowering reactivity through specific protocols.

The U-Turn Technique

Laura explains the U-turn technique as a method to redirect a dog's attention away from a trigger.
The technique involves turning around and running a few steps in the opposite direction, followed by rewarding the dog.
Kim and Laura discuss the importance of practicing the U-turn in non-stressful situations to avoid the dog associating it with the presence of other dogs.
The technique aims to prevent the dog from focusing on the trigger and to redirect its attention to the handler.

Dealing with Unexpected Encounters

Kim and Laura discuss what to do when an unexpected encounter with another dog occurs.
Laura advises taking corners wide to avoid sudden encounters and having high-value treats ready to redirect the dog's attention.
Kim suggests turning around and walking away steadfastly as a better alternative to freezing or panicking.
The importance of not panicking and having a plan in place is emphasized to avoid making the situation worse.

Handling Loose Dogs

Kim and Laura discuss strategies for dealing with loose dogs, including carrying a citronella spray or other deterrents.
Laura shares a personal experience of using a leash to back a dog off and the importance of being prepared for such situations.
Kim advises against picking up a small dog in the presence of a loose dog, as it can escalate the situation.
The conversation highlights the importance of being aware of the environment and having a plan in case of an encounter with a loose dog.

Dealing with a Dog That Gets Loose

Kim and Laura discuss what to do if a dog gets loose from its owner.
Laura advises against running after the dog, as it can make the dog more excited and harder to catch.
Kim suggests using high-value treats or the car as a lure to get the dog to come back.
The importance of not correcting the dog after it returns is emphasized to maintain a positive association with coming back.

Final Thoughts and Future Topics

Kim and Laura wrap up the discussion by emphasizing the importance of planning and having contingency plans for various scenarios.
They mention the potential for revisiting the topic in future episodes to cover more specific scenarios and techniques.
Kim and Laura encourage listeners to review the podcast and provide feedback or suggestions for future topics.
Contact information for the trainers is provided for those interested in training their dogs.

TRANSCRIPT

How to Handle Those “Oh No” Moments

Announcer

Music. Welcome to Doggie Dish, where two of LA's best dog trainers serve up a hearty helping of dog topics. At the end of this podcast, we'll provide information on how to contact our trainers. And now here they are.

Kim: Hi. This is Kim Rinehardt with The K9 Educator

Laura: and Laura Bourhenne from Animal Attraction Unlimited. Thank you for joining us

Kim: Today we're going to talk about how to get yourself out of tight spots, difficult situations. A lot of times, I talk to people who we're working on a protocol. We're working on some kind of training. We're working to deal with a problem or whatever. Or I go out and I see people out on the street, and I see them get into situations where their dog starts to what I call spin out of control, or the situation starts to spin out of control. Something comes down, and they don't quite know how to handle what's happening,

Laura: And you have to have some contingencies for how to get out of those situations gracefully, without causing more problems, Yes, definitely.

Kim: Without causing more harm. I agree, and I think that that's something that, of course, is situation to situation, and perhaps people can go on our Facebook page and give us future suggestions for problems and scenarios. Because we this, we might be able to revisit this at some time, but we can talk about the ones that we've seen, the most common ones that we've seen, one of them would, for me, would be having dogs that are reactive on the end of the leash. And encountering a dog, whether it's a dog, whether you're walking down the street and there's a dog behind a gate that's going ballistic, or one time you and I were driving down the street and there were, there was a situation on dogs on one side of the street, dogs on the other side of the street. All the owners were right. The dogs were reacting. All the owners were standing there going, what the heck do you do right now, and it wasn't a fight, but it was scary. And I remember as we drove through thinking, I hope nobody loses a leash, and you know, the dog doesn't go flying past your you were going slow enough that we could have stopped, but still, yeah, through the street, it was scary. And nobody in that situation seemed to have a clue.

Laura: Seemed to even think that there was a problem,

Kim: Right, with the dogs all twirling and bobbing and weaving and screeching and

Laura: staring and scrambling their nails on the pavement

Kim: right in a situation like that. Unfortunately, with people all standing there and the dogs behaving in this fashion, the dogs are practicing reactivity,

Laura: and the owners usually aren't doing anything about it. I saw another similar situation that I want to talk about. But go ahead

Kim: and it has the potential to that reactivity has the potential to turn into aggression, and those kinds of things. Typically, whatever you practice, you get better at, so the dogs practicing that behavior on the end of the leash is very negative. And so there are protocols for lowering reactivity on the end of the leash. But what happens sometimes is people get, even if they're working on a protocol, they get in a situation where all of a sudden, a dog appears right in front of them, and they're like, What do I do now? Because typically, in a protocol, we have them work outside of the area where the dog is super reactive,

Laura: yeah, subthreshold, so that, so that you don't even go there, and reinforce behavior, right? Sometimes it's not possible.

Kim: You know what? Dog poop happens, right? Sometimes things happen, right?

Laura: And you get to a corner with a hedge, and another dog comes around the corner and you didn't see it, and you have to get out of it gracefully, because you don't want to do more damage to your training protocol,

Kim: So, in a situation like that. Well, how do you counsel people to deal with it?

Laura: Well, I usually teach people who have leash-reactive dogs. I usually teach them a U-turn, and I teach them not to only do it in the presence of another dog, because I don't want every time they do the U-turn to be a predictor that, oh, there must be a dog around, and then they start looking for the dog. So, by that, I mean, and this is from Patricia McConnell's book Feisty Fido, where you're going down the street and suddenly you say, Turn. And you turn around, and you kind of run a few steps in the other direction. And then you reward the dog. You heavily reward the dog for turning with you. And you do it at times more often when there is not a dog around, so that it's only the occasional time that there's actually a dog around, because otherwise you end up with a dog that starts looking over his shoulder for the dog.

Kim: every time you do the U-turn, right.

Laura: And also, so that it's not like you're running away from the other dog.

Kim: Yeah, that's a big one. So, the reason that's helpful is that you instantly take the dog's attention away from where he would be focusing, right? As soon as he focuses on that dog, and he screws in his attention real tight, and he starts to get that excitement building up in his body, you actually don't allow that to happen, right?

Laura: And yes, ideally, I do the turn before that, as soon as the dog saw the other dog, that's when I would do the turn. And that's also, like you said, you you get the dog focus somewhere else. And. That's where the trotting comes in, where the running away comes in, because if you just turn in, meander away, you're not going to have the dog's attention very much. But as soon as you start to move faster, the dog goes, Oh, I better pay attention to where we're going, because I can't exactly run forward and be looking over my shoulder at the same time.

Kim: So ideally, you would do this before the dog actually catches sight. And actually, what I was describing with all the excitement was not waiting until that happens. What I was saying is, that's the that's what you're avoiding. That's what you're trying to avoid. But occasionally the dog comes out from behind the hedge and your dog sees it at the exact same moment that you do. You can still do that technique. And the running actually, is what makes especially if you've practiced it, if you practiced it a whole lot where, when there was no other dog there. So again, as you said, they don't think that they're running away. There isn't that setting them up into a higher level of reactivity, that turning around, going the other way, but it gives them something startling, oh, what we're going where? And turn around and go. And it gives them something else to instantly, to direct their attention.

Laura: And you've already proven that it's a lot of fun and that there is something good at the end. It's like, oh, mom's, mom's a lot more fun than that dog is, I know it. I have a history. Mom has built up a history of this so that turning and running, and then I get a cookie, you know, I get a really good treat, or whatever. That this game is a lot more fun than that game.

Kim: So, let's say, for people listening to this, they haven't had an opportunity to really work on that. Okay?

Laura: Then I suggest they start.

Kim: And tomorrow, they go out and this exact scenario sets itself up. They go walking along, and all of a sudden, a person with another dog comes out from behind a hedge, and it's fairly close to them. And if they turn around and go right now, and they really haven't had an opportunity to train this at all, then they turn a round and they go, and it could seem like running away, and it could actually get the dog, because there's no history. So, in a situation like that, how do you counsel your clients? I would tell them on their walks, number one, take a whole lot of really, really, really good food, because you can't compete with another dog if all you have is, you know, dry cookies. So I would probably, at that point, have, I mean, if you if you live in a neighborhood where there are a lot of hedges or a lot of block walls or whatever, on the corner, you can't really get around a corner without possibly running into something. I tell people to take the corners wide, or if you're coming up on a hedge, to listen for things, or and take the hedge wide, meaning that you go farther around, so that you can at least see around, so it doesn't just suddenly come up on you. But sometimes that's not possible. So I think what I would do is just have the food in my hand and then that way, as if something like that happens, I would probably have them put the food right in front of the dog's nose and have its attention that way and be leading it away by the nose, literally. There are very few ways to get out of that situation. There are very few ways, and I think that that's part of the problem. I think that people get into a situation like that, and they don't realize sometimes you can't get out totally gracefully, but you need a way to get out, and you need a plan. Because without the absence of a plan, what a lot of people do is freeze, tighten up, and stand there while their dog is freaking out. And unfortunately, while there is not a perfect way out of it. There are better ways than freezing, tightening up and watching your dog come unglued.

Laura: Or yelling with your dog. I was saying, no, no, no, quiet, leave it No, and then just standing there and the two of you are now yelling.

Kim: Yeah, the more frantic you are when the situation comes apart when it starts to spin out of control. The more frantic that you are, the more you're participating in what's going on, the faster you make everything spin. So one of the most important parts when you get into a situation, and of course, this is easy to say, much harder to do, but when you get into a situation where things start to get out of control is don't panic, don't freeze. Have thought through various different types of scenarios, and have thought about them frequently enough that you have a contingency plan. So if I had a dog that I just started working with, I never worked with the dog before, and the dog was reactive, and I took the dog out front on a leash, and all of a sudden, out of the sky fell the dog right in front of just 10 feet ahead of us. Okay, there was no way for me to predict it. There was no going wide. There was no nothing. It just happened. And there was the dog right in front of us. One of the things that I would do is, first of all, not panic, not get excited, and I would turn around and I would go the other way. That's what I would do if I didn't have a treat in my hand, which is really unlikely, but if I didn't have a wonderful treat in my hand to work with the dog, I would still turn around and get the dog out of there. You don't have to turn around and run. If you turn around and run at that point, then that adds to the arousal. But if you turn around very steadfastly and walk away just determined, just with a strong, determined attitude of, I'm out of here now, not a I'm getting out of here, or I'm getting away from you. I'm leaving now and go. That is a better, there is no perfect way out of that scenario. Yeah, but that is a better way to handle it than to stand there and watch the situation unfold, or stand there and try to yell at your dog and get his attention and get his attention and fail and fail and fail and fail.

Laura: And you know what I've done in those situations is rather than pull the dog out of the situation. I mean, I will if I absolutely have to, ideally have a head halter on the dog, like a gentle leader or something, so that I can actually turn the dog's head, because I don't want to pull the dog out of the situation and have him still yelling over his shoulder at the other dog. But what I'll do is I will try to get the dog to turn his back on the dog to even just glance at me over his shoulder, and then I'll move so that he's kind of the one taking his eye off the other dog, instead of me dragging him away. And one of the ways I'll do that is I'll goose the dog, poke him in the rear end, and go, Hey, and he's going to turn around because he's already in a state of arousal. He's going to turn around and go, what was that? Because he's already going to react to that. And as soon as he turns around, I'm ready to run backwards. I'm going to run backwards. Keep his attention. I'm not going to turn my back on him, right? I want to keep engaged with him. Get him looking at me. Yay. There you are. Come on, let's go this way, right? Get him running backwards, maybe even towards the treat, so that he's like, coming after the treat. And then once I'm 20 feet away, then I'm going to turn and now we're both going to walk away from the other dog.

Kim: And that's in a perfect scenario where you have the treat. You know I think what I see a lot of times, is the people who get themselves in a situation they don't know what to do. They say, well, you told me to do this, but I didn't have a treat, or you told me to do this, but then when I goosed him and turned around and ran then he just got really excited and started jumping up at me. So sometimes, when you don't have any of the safeguards in place, the best thing to do is just to get him out of there. Don't stand there and wait for it to happen. You're right. Dragging a dog out is not the best scenario, but it's better than allowing the dog to stand there and stay immersed in that behavior. Yeah, and I think that that's what I was thinking. Okay, let's think of all the different scenarios that could come up that we can think of. And in a situation where a dog comes out of nowhere, you might have treats, and if you have them, use them, you might be able to goose him and turn around go the other way with a treat. Definitely, if he turns around to look at you for a minute, make a big deal out of what a good boy he is. And go, go, go, go, if you have a dog that's really in a high state of arousal, don't necessarily run, because he might come up and try to grab your That's right, turning around and getting out of there, but walking determinedly, not sauntering

Laura: and interacting with the dog at the same time. Don't just ignore the dog if he's coming with you. You do not ignore the dog.

Kim: And if you happen to be dragging him, and that can happen, he can turn around look at you. You can say good and turn around to start to go and he doesn't stay engaged with you. He turns back at the other dog. Keep moving until you get it to a distance where he stops looking over his shoulder. Then make a big deal end on the positive.

Laura: And that's one reason that I, I mean, I've gone half a block or more until a dog that she turns around and pays attention to me, but I'm walking backwards the whole time because I want to catch him that instant that he decides to turn around and look at me because he might look at me and I'm going, yeah, good boy. Then he turns back around towards the other dog, but I'm still walking backwards trying to get his attention as soon as he looks at me.

Kim: And can I just tell you I do the same thing, but I don't counsel other people to do it, because if they hit something and fall down, it can be disastrous. You and I have a tremendous amount of mechanical skills when it comes to this, because we've done it. We're not caught up in the drama. We're caught up in doing what we need to do. But when I counsel people to do it, I never counsel them to walk backwards. And there's a reason for that, because if you hit something and go down, you are now at a huge disadvantage, the likelihood that the dog is going to get away from you, the likelihood that, I don't know, there's a lot of bad things that could happen in that set of circumstances, not the least of which, you could break your hip.

Laura: And we're getting older, those things are occurring to us. But I was like, but also, you know, I mean, that's a really good point, because, you know, when we're walking, we're not just watching the dog, and a lot of owners don't, don't even watch their dog. But we're looking at the sidewalk. We're looking at the cracks in the sidewalk. We're going, Okay, if I have to turn around here, where, if I have to turn around here, I know that now five steps behind me, there's going to be a bump in the sidewalk. We're constantly looking at that. And I think one thing that people need to be aware of is, when you are walking, make up scenarios in your head. Walk and go, okay, here comes a hedge. What would I do right now? Yes, and going, going out into the street, around a parked car and standing around that, you know, on the other side of a parked car, so that there is that big visual barrier between you and the other dog until the other dog can go away. If you walk on a regular basis on a regular route, you need to start looking around. You need to look around and say, what would I do right now? If a dog came out of there.

Kim: And you don't anticipate it in a scary way? Oh, it could happen. It could happen. It can happen. You do it in a thoughtful way. What would I do now? What would I do now? And really plan a course plan, a course plan.

Laura: Because if you play it out in your head, if you visualize it, it's going to be that much easier to do when it actually happens.

Kim: And you will have practiced it, you would have, will have actually, whether or not you physically did it, you will actually, in your head, have gotten yourself out of so many situations that it will be less you will feel less reactive in the moment. You will be able to go to your head instead of to your fear, your gut, right? So that was one of the situations, another one that I think people encounter a lot, unfortunately, is they have their dog out on a leash, and they encountered a loose and they encounter a loose dog

Laura: That's never fun.

Kim: That is never fun, and, and I'm going to say just right off the top, there is no really great way out of that. But there are a few things to think about. Okay, one of the things is, if you're going to be out walking your dog in a neighborhood, and you live in a place where there are loose dogs, get yourself some Direct Stop (Spray Shield). I mean, I think at this point, with the amount of people that I hear of that encounter problems like that, with the amount of people that I know personally who have such have situations that have happened like that. But people who take their dogs out for walks should have something like Direct Stop on them. Direct Stop is a citronella spray that you can spray the dog. It will not stop every dog, but it will stop a very large percentage of the dogs, and you have it out, and you have it in a place where you can get to it, and you can take it out and give the dog a shot, and you do not wait until they get right up on you.

Laura: Yeah. There are a lot of people who, I mean, I see people who walk holding a cane or a golf club or something, and I know a lot of people who walk their dogs holding those too, just so that there's something. And there was one time that I was walking that I was working a client's dog. It was a Doberman, nice, nice dog. And I heard a dog down the street. I didn't see it. I heard it coming. I heard the nails on the pavement. I heard it coming, and I immediately start looking around. There was a lot of construction going on, and there was a pickup truck with the open bed. I didn't know who the truck belonged to, but I thought I could, I could put him up here, but the dog that came around the corner was a Rottweiler mix who could have easily gotten into the back of that truck too. So, as I'm getting ready to throw this Doberman into the back of this pickup truck I decide to, because this dog that I was walking was a really nice dog, and I had my big, heavy leash on me. My leash, it's a European leash, so it has a number of metal rings on it. I take the dog off the leash, and I hold on to the dog's collar with my hand, and I start swinging that leash. And I started just swinging that leash and backing that dog down the street. And I was lucky that I was on a street where there was a big wall on one side, because it was a hill, and then there was one of the construction workers was in his car, and he started waving his hand to get the dog to back off too. But I had to back that dog off quite a bit to keep him from falling this back to the house.

Kim: And you're a dog trainer and unusually brave in a situation like that. First of all, taking the leash off the dog is great.

Laura: Yeah, I knew that that dog wasn't going to go anywhere.

Kim: If you don't really know, not, not the best idea.

Laura: Or you carry a second leash.

Kim: Yeah. For Laura, totally. You know, trust that scenario. For other people, not so much. So, let's say you don't have anything. Let's say you end up and you don't have anything. You don't have any what I call weapons, steel-toed boots, terrible as they are, but you don't have any, you don't have anything. You haven't done that thought process, and you haven't. If you have a little, tiny dogs dog, a lot of people will pick the dog up well, and I understand that. Know that the dog can come up onto you, and that that happens to people. So, if you're going to pick the dog up, at least turn your back.

Laura: Yeah, you know one of my clients, their housekeeper was walking their dog, their little dachshund, and a big dog came out after them, and it happened to be trash day, and she picked the little dog up and put it in a trash can and closed the lid of the trash can. And the dog saw where the little dog went, and so she stood there holding down the top of the trash can, screaming at the top of her lungs. And luckily, the big dog was still trying to get after the little dog, and didn't go after her, but was still trying to get into the trash can. But it was really smart thinking.

Kim: And can I just say these are very scary scenarios, because I don't scare easily, especially when it comes to dogs, and he's even as we're talking about this, I'm getting that little funky. I am too funky spot in the pit of my stomach, yeah, because it's really scary. So, I think that, you know, admittedly, we're not saying, gee, this is it. This is how you're going to fix everything. Because there are no guarantees in a situation like that. We're just trying to get you maybe thinking about what you would do. Maybe, because I think that a lot of people, the reason that they get into trouble is because they haven't really thought of it ahead of time. And at the time that it happens, they get that little thing in the pit of their stomach, and they get so focused on, oh my god, that they don't know what to do. So certainly, a little dog, if you have a larger dog sometimes standing and saying, No. Oh, getting scary with a dog. Sometimes. Can back a dog off. I've backed a lot of dogs, oh, yeah, that way out on the street by just simply standing my ground, standing up as tall as I can saying no. Now, let me caution you, because all of my dogs, if I do that, will stand and watch me do it. What can happen when you do that is your dog can go into defensive mode. Now, yeah, let's get them. Let's kill them. And you can actually cause a lot of arousal. So, you really have to know your dog very well.

Laura: And if the dog, if the dog, coming after you, this happened once here in our neighborhood. I was walking, and I knew that there was a dog that would be loose sometimes, and so when I took our dog for a walk, I was really every time I got to a corner, I would look around. I looked around every hedge because I had no idea where this dog lived. I just know that he's in our little neighborhood here.

Kim: And your advice of driving away, driving away, going to a different spot because, you know, there's a loose dog?

Laura: No, but because there's only one dog, and he wasn't, you know, I don't know how often he was out. And anyway, I know so I get to the corner, because I said that when you said, if there are is a neighborhood with a lot of loose dogs, this was one in particular. So, I get to the corner, and I look before I cross the street, and I look, and there's no dog. And I get across the street, and then I start hearing, again, nails on the pavement, which is a horrible sound. It is a horrible sound, because you know what's coming. And I turned around. Luckily, by then, I was on a sidewalk where there was a hedge on one side and a, you know, a retaining wall on the other, and my dog was nice and calm, and I knew that this dog was coming after my dog, not me, but after my dog. And so I put my dog behind me, because that at least kind of broke some of the visual.

Kim: And I she's a bean pole. I don't know how much vision, four inches, whatever. Okay, go on.

Laura: But so I put my dog behind me, and I have, it was one of those leashes that has a ring on the handle. And this dog, I tried to back him off, but he only had eyes for my dog, and not in a good way. And it was a shar pei, so, luckily, it wasn't a huge dog. But like I said, I have the hedge on one side and the retaining wall on the other, and I step into this dog, and with the handle of my leash, I just whack this dog right across the chest. And this was pretty scary. This was actually pretty scary because the dog didn't yelp and run away. He stopped and gave me the evil eye and actually growled at me.

Kim: Yeah, I had that happen with one of the neighbor’s dogs.

Laura: And it's like, Oh, geez. What is wrong with these people that they own this dog? So I just stood there. I just stood there. I wasn't going to hit him again. I wasn't going to whack him again. I also wasn't going to walk away. And I just stood there. I just stood there, totally immobile, staring at this dog, until he went. Then you could see the little middle paw, you know, middle toe on his paw come up. And so then he started to walk away. And I took one step toward him, and he instantly turned around and growled at me. So, there's some dogs that you can continue to walk after them, not in an aggressive way, but just walk towards them to

Kim: Yeah, it is an aggressive way but continue on.

Laura: Yeah, exactly, but not like raising my hand or anything like that. I just took a couple steps forward. And he turned around and growled me again, okay, so just go. And I just waited for him to go around the corner, and then I backed down the street by about a half a block, before I turned around and I continued to look over my shoulder, because I know how far this dog would roam the neighborhood, but it was pretty scary to have this dog, I mean, I mean, it was a heavy duty ring on the end of this leash, and I whacked him and he and he just stopped dead in his tracks and growled at me.

Kim: Yeah, I've used before my car keys, my house keys, oh, I have a fair amount of keys, yeah. And sometimes, if you have a dog coming at you, and I have pretty good aim, especially when I'm scared. I don't know why,

Laura: and it doesn't go fly off in the bushes or anything.

Kim: No, because, probably because all of my attention is "NO!" And I've said no in a scary way and thrown the keys dead at them. Now, could it hurt? Could it hit an eye and hurt them? Yes, it could. Do I care at that point? No, I really don't. I don't care. I mean, I don't want to hurt somebody's dog, but I don't want them to hurt me either, and I don't want them to hurt my dog. And I think if I'm loose, if I'm loose,

Laura: If she's on the loose, people, you better be careful!

Kim: because I got keys and I know how to use them. But if I'm by myself, I'm less freaked out than if I'm out there with one of my dogs, but I've been known to take my keys out and throw them right in, because even if you don't hit the dog, something coming at them, you saying no and looking powerful, and something coming at them is a lot of times enough to stop a dog. Now, the problem is, you don't really have anything to back it up with. So again, it's not a guarantee, but a lot of times it's enough to back a dog off. I had my neighbor's dog. Somebody was coming to pick up a dog from my house, and we were taking them out to the car, and my neighbor's dog came barreling, barreling up to us. We were at the curb, and I tried to back it off, you know, I put myself between them and said no, and she did the same thing. She just curled her lip up and growled at me.

Laura: And I at that point, you're going, Oh No! Because then what do you do? If you get more aggressive, she's going to get more aggressive.

Kim: Well, I'm just thinking. I'm just thinking, if she's going to bite me, let me have bought enough time that my client can get her dog in the car. That's all that was going through my head, honestly, was just get that dog in the car and close the doors, because that's all I was interested in at that point. Well, actually, I was hoping my client would get it too, because I wouldn't want to be bitten. But, well, if I had a vote I would rather it was me than anybody else. So anyway, and it was, it was very scary. And she did the same thing. She or she stood me off for quite a while, and she started to move back, and I started to take ground, and she turned around and did the same thing. So then when she walked off, I just stood my ground.

Laura: And the walk is a really stiff-legged,

Kim: oh yeah, not a happy, oh yeah, not a happy walk. Oh, my goodness, this little peach bit turned into a great, big one. My poor tummy. But um, so that would be another situation. Let's talk about people who have a dog out. And I know this doesn't happen to any of our responsible Doggie Dish listeners. However, let's talk about the dog that gets loose from them. So you have a dog, and perhaps it either gets out the front door,

Laura: it slips its collar. You know, sometimes people take their dog to the groomer and the groomer adjusts the collar, or doesn't put the collar on the same

Kim: Okay. Well, having been a groomer for a long time, I will tell you that many times people bring the dog to the groomer and it's on the collar that it can slip, and I'm the one who tightens it.

Laura: Yeah, but I know there are times that I've gotten my dog back from the groomer and it's not as tight as I had it when I went there.

Kim: Okay, so the dog slips the collar and gets loose. Again, not a great situation, not a great situation, folks. But if you start panicking and running after your dog, you're going to send them away. You are going to send them away. So the best situation in a situation like that is to try to form a strategy that will bring them back. Some dogs, there is no strategy that's going to bring them back. Then you go get the car, and you do have to follow them. You have to follow them, but running after them, yelling their name. I've seen people doing that, and I've seen the dog going, YAY!

Laura: We've got a great game of chase going on here.

Kim: We're going on a big, big walk now!

Laura: I must know, I must know where we're going!

Kim: So in a situation like that, you can turn around and go the other way, call your dog.

Laura: You can roll on the ground, and squeal like a pig. You can you can drop down to the ground and pretend like you're digging in the grass, like you found something great. Because a lot of times the dog will come up, and usually what will happen then is, if the dog comes up, I don't immediately reach out and grab them, because if you miss that first time they're gone, they're not going to do it again.

Kim: For a dog that really likes the car, sometimes, running to the car and opening the car door can be helpful, yeah, sometimes that'll get let's go. Come on. Let's go! Sometimes that'll be helpful with a dog that is really into the car,

Laura: Or like, even if your dog doesn't have a great recall to the word come, almost every dog knows the word cookie or treat. So if you say cookie, you want a cookie or treat, it might that might get the dog to turn around to come. It's not a great training situation. But just know then that you have to work on your recalls.

Kim: And this is a really important thing to mention, and that is, we're not saying these are techniques to teach a dog a recall at all. And so it's really important that these things come up very, very infrequently, because if you used a technique like this three or four times, it's going to become watered down, but the first time you use it, especially cookie or the car, the first time you use it, can oftentimes get the dog to come back. Let's talk about if the dog does come back. If the dog does come back

Laura: Or if you finally catch up with the dog. If the dog stops to sniff a bush and you are able to grab him.

Kim: And you know what? I swear everyone knows this, because I hear people say this, and yet I see people fall into this all the time, no matter how angry or upset you are, it's not the time to correct the dog.

Laura: No, it's not, because next time, he's just going to stay away from you for longer, or he's not going to come back.

Kim: Or he's not going to let you catch him. He's going to say, You know what, I'll be smarter next time. And when I'm sniffing the grass, I'll be listening to see if you're coming up behind me. Because I don't want you to. So when you get that dog back, no matter how upset you are, no matter how much you wish that you could take him and bang his head against a wall,

Laura: You don't do it. You have to be happy that you got him, no matter how frustrated, no matter how scared, no matter how angry.

Kim: And in fact, you need to demonstrate that you're happy that you've got him. It will help you the next time around, if you can make it a positive thing to have come back. That's not a bad idea, but we probably reached the end of this now I think. Do you have a lot more? But we will revisit this one future, huh? I'm sure. So for now, this is Kim Rinehardt with The K9 Educator,

Laura: And Laura Bourhenne with Animal Attraction Unlimited. And please remember, if you're listening to this on iTunes, go there and write us a review and give us a bunch of stars.

Kim: Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you. Bye.

Announcer: You have been listening to Doggie Dish, a podcast series about dog training and other related issues. To suggest a topic for a future segment, please email us at doggiedishbroadcasts@gmail.com. To learn more about our featured trainers, or if you're interested in training for your own dog and you live in the Los Angeles area, you may contact Laura or Kim directly. To speak with Laura. Call 818-800-4818, or visit her website at www.petdogtrainer.com, to speak with Kim call 818-923-4547, or visit her website at https://www.yourk9educator.com/

Thank you for listening.